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Dorchester is the next best place to live! (in 2005)

This week, New York magazine ran an article subtitled, “The Degentrification of Red Hook”.

Basically, it comes down to this. There is a neighborhood within the New York City borough of Brooklyn called Red Hook.

A couple years ago, there was a mild up-tick in interest in the neighborhood. Everyone interested in real estate

Including Barbara Corcoran, who bought in the area and then trumpeted its appeal on national TV.

Well …

Fast forward two years and what do we find?

Not much has changed.

Empty storefronts, empty lots, etc., etc., etc.

Funny how a slower real estate market does that sort of thing.

Which made me wonder …

dotHow’s Dorchester doing?

The neighborhood of 50,000 residents (an estimate), it is full of three-decker homes, a lot of commercial and light industry, and a melting pot of residents including Hispanic, Vietnamese, etc. It used to be more Irish.

Many three-decker homes were converted into condos over the past half-decade. Things looked good. A higher-income population was moving in, which led to renovations of old housing and an increase in street-life and stores and shops.

Yet, now, things might look a little different.

I’d love to hear from people who actually live there or work there or spend a lot of time there.

Thoughts?

Where does Dorchester stand, today?

More: The Embers of Gentrification – # By Adam Sternbergh, New York magazine

Read other posts about: Boston neighborhoods

15 Responses to “Dorchester is the next best place to live! (in 2005)” »»

  1. Comment by bosdev | 11/16/07 at 12:38 pm

    Looking at

    the numbers, things don’t appear to be going that well in Dorchester. According to Banker and

    Tradesman, SFH prices are down 16.31% YOY and Condo prices are down 11.05% YOY in Dorchester. For

    comparison, when all neighborhoods are included, Boston condo prices are up 3.6% YOY. Charlestown

    and JP head the list, up 23% and 17.8% respectively.

    Source, Oct 22 B&T, Sept YOY

    prices.

  2. SJ
    Comment by SJ | 11/16/07 at 1:29 pm

    From everything I’ve heard it

    doesn’t sound like a very safe or desirable place to live.

  3. Comment by Matt | 11/16/07 at 1:42 pm

    To

    John: the condo market’s a bit flooded, but there’s still new construction (950 Dot Ave, the

    Carruth – whether they sell well remains to be seen) and new restaurants (Chris Douglass’s Tavulo

    (sp?)) coming in, and places are still selling, although at a slower pace.

    The Crime you

    hear about on TV is still concentrated in small pockets of the neighborhood; the areas that have

    traditionally been safe remain so.

    To SJ: I believe John asked “folks who actually live,

    work, or spend time there”. Why don’t you check it out sometime before commenting on “what

    you’ve heard”? Thanks.

  4. MW
    Comment by MW | 11/16/07 at 3:08 pm

    I think

    the Dorchester population is actually closer to 100k than 50k. As Matt commented above, only

    certain areas are actually dangerous…it’s just that those are the ones people here about.

    I lived in the JFK/Savin Hill area for several years, and noticed a lot of change over last

    few. A lot of people being priced out of Southie are moving over there. Things seemed to have

    slowed a bit over last year or so, but good progress is being made.

  5. MW
    Comment by MW | 11/16/07 at 3:09 pm

    I think the Dorchester population is actually closer

    to 100k than 50k. As Matt commented above, only certain areas are actually dangerous…it’s just

    that those are the ones people hear about. The majority of the neighborhoods in Dorchester are a

    lot safer than most people realize.

    I lived in the JFK/Savin Hill area for several years,

    and noticed a lot of change over last few. A lot of people being priced out of Southie are moving

    over there. Things seemed to have slowed a bit over last year or so, but good progress is being

    made.

  6. Comment by Matt | 11/16/07 at 3:18 pm

    MW: Agreed on the population

    numbers.

    John: Also, I read the Red Hook article; in addition to my earlier comments -

    unlike Red Hook, businesses aren’t closing – in fact, the ones I frequent seem to be doing as fine

    as always….

  7. Comment by Dorchester? Ew. | 11/16/07 at 3:19 pm

    Who the hell

    cares about Dorchester?

    I’m sorry, but… ummmm… ew?

    The only parts of

    Boston that matter are those parts where the elite live: South End, Back Bay, Beacon Hill. I mean

    come on, Dorchester? You might as well be in (shudder) Worcester!

    Why would anyone choose

    to live in Dorchester, unless they were too poor to live in real Boston? Haven’t you guys seen

    that like 90% of the foreclosures that happen are in the loser sections of town, namely Dorchester,

    East Boston and Roslindale?

  8. Comment by asdf | 11/16/07 at 3:38 pm

    Restaurants are busier, new ones

    are opening. No vacant storefronts, lots of new building. Seven houses gutted and flipped on my

    street since we moved in three years ago.

    Very quiet and convenient. Walk to the Red Line,

    5min to 93. If we move, it will because we want our own house and can’t afford it

    here.

    Very strong neighborhood community. People look out for each other.

    Big lots, a

    lot of yards, parks and green space. Lots of places for our dogs to run around.

  9. Dan
    Comment by Dan | 11/16/07 at 5:16 pm

    I know a ocouple people that live in Dorchester and they love it. They

    decided to buy there because they were priced out of South Boston. They also picked Dot because of

    the convience of commutting. The Red Line gives fast accesss to the financial district and Bio

    Tech/IT area in Kendall Sq, unlike the green line. So Brighton & Allston are terrible for

    getting downtown by T or driving. Jamaica Plain is good to commutte by T but driving is a pain as

    there are no quick roads in and out of JP. The more people I talk to it seems like people really

    want a short commutte when deciding where they live.

  10. Comment by Joe Schutt | 11/16/07 at 6:53 pm

    Wow…great post John. And some interesting responses. First to give myself credibility: I am

    someone who lives on Jones Hill in Dot (7 years now with my partner and 3 dogs), yes the NEW South

    End, I work in Real Estate out of the Back Bay office selling everywhere in the city including Dot,

    on the board of directors for Uphams Corner Main Streets and a member of the Neighborhood

    Association of Back Bay. I will now leave a few comments.

    Dot is a great place to live. If

    you have never been here don’t comment. I think someone said that already, but I am saying it

    again.

    As for ‘Dorchester? Ew.’ don’t comment since you don’t know what you are talking

    about. Think back to the South End about 10-15 years ago. You were dodging bullets going through

    the South End. When Hamersley’s opened people would call from their car phones to get an escort to

    the restaurant. It isn’t until recently that prices have made leaps and bounds there.

    As

    for the property values. You can’t take all of Dorchester and lump it together. Did you not know

    that Dorchester is 1/3 of all of Boston? That’s like taking JP, Roxbury and Roslindale and lumping

    it together. You need to break it down by similar areas before you can really start comparing

    prices. Yes, we have hit high dollars for condos and singles here, relatively speaking of course.

    In Dot you need to look at the mini neighborhoods to get a true sense of property

    values.

    And when you hear about “crime” or “shootingsâ€? in Dot, they are not always in Dot.

    There are times they are actually in JP or Roxbury. And even if they were in Dot it is probably so

    far from where you live you wouldn’t even know it happened.

    Dorchester is a place where

    neighbors know each other and there is a sense of community and care for the area. Businesses are

    opening up and small business districts are active and get better everyday.

    Construction is

    still going strong here. It just needs to make sense. Unfortunately, when the market was hot we had

    mini developers coming in and doing horrible Home Depot renovations and charging top dollar for

    them. Now, we have a much higher standard and people are willing to pay for quality. Like $600,000

    for a condo that has it all.

    So, to those who do not know or UNDERSTAND Dorchester. Don’t

    comment. For those who want to know more about it. Talk to people that live here before jumping to

    conclusions, you might be pleasantly surprised.

  11. Comment by Ignorance | 11/16/07 at 7:21 pm

    Everything is

    relavtive…but there are very few BAD neighborhoods in Boston. It is one of the safest cities in

    the country. Even the worst neighborhood in Boston would be considered safe in MANY cities in our

    country.

    I think the issue is the population of Boston is only 500K so most of the people

    who give opinions on Boston (any neighborhood) are likely not residents of the city.

    Sorry, Somervile, Quincy and Medford do not count. Neither does Weston or Wellesley or New

    Hampshire.

  12. Comment by Dave | 11/16/07 at 10:36 pm

    Red

    Hook doesn’t actually seem to have that much going for it—lousy public transit access, an ugly

    housing stock, and many projects. Red Hook just became the “next place� in the inevitable

    march towards gentrification in NYC.

    Dorchester may be too large to compare to Red Hook, but

    we certainly have much that makes us attractive.

    We have great decent public transportation

    –the Dorchester Ave. corridor has four redline stops. Dot is 15 minutes to South Station and has

    lower real estate cost compared to South Boston.

    The neighborhood has decent housing stock,

    and we’re not burdened with too much public housing (hello South End.)

    I challenge anyone

    to find a nicer collection of Victorian homes in Boston proper than they’ll find in Melville

    Park, Carruth Hill, or Ashmont Hill. Many of these areas have been “gentrified� (whatever that

    means) since the 1970s. Savin Hill OTB has many lovely homes—just drive around. Jones Hill,

    where I live, has become a popular destination for gay men priced out the South End.

    Dot

    Ave. is vibrant. New restaurants and shops are opening in St. Mark’s and Lower Mills. The

    Vietnamese community keeps the area between Field’s Corner and Savin Hill humming.

    The

    current real estate downturn has hit many areas of Dorchester hard. Just look at the foreclosure

    report that John puts up every week. Subprime loans, combined with financial ignorance, have hurt

    many. As for anyone who bought in the last two years hoping to make a killing and get

    out—surprise. Since I’m planning to be here for the long term, I’m bullish on my

    neighborhood.

  13. Comment by joe c | 11/19/07 at 11:33 am

    The house next door to me was

    converted into two condos a few years ago, and both units were sold again this year, each for

    almost twice as much as what my house was bought for 15 years ago. We have a very nice street and

    it’s always been a major selling point, so this may have been an exception. I just want to know

    where the hell people are getting all this money from to buy at these prices.

  14. Comment by KDNicewanger | 11/20/07 at 7:08 pm

    Why argue about the population? According to the BRA breakdown of the 2000 census,

    Dorchester’s population is just under 93,000. That’s probably changed a little over the past 7

    years, but not by 50k.

    Agreed that outsiders have a warped perspective of the whole crime

    thing. I live in Roxbury, try dealing with a suburbanite’s impression of that neighborhood. But

    still, even now some Dorchester homesellers still list their property in the classifieds as

    “OTB.”

  15. Comment by John K | 11/20/07 at 7:42 pm

    Hi. Yes,

    it’s 90,000, I was off by 40,000.

    Always count on real estate agents to inflate the

    numbers!

    (Er, I was under, but it’s still a funny joke.)

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